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 Will it make it before the frost? 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:03 pm
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Location: Inland Cornwall UK
Post Will it make it before the frost?
A magnificent Dahlia has flower buds for the first time with me.

The plant is called [according to supplier] Dahlia aff. pteropoda or Dahlia sp. nova.

It is making a magnificent foliage plant topping out at nearly nine feet.

Image
Dahlia tamaulipana

Image
Dahlia tamaulipana

Image
Dahlia tamaulipana

Dahlia foeniculifolia may flower for the first time for me this year as well; but it is under cover so has a better chance.

Dahlia campanulata is in a more exposed space and has already succumbed; losing its tender growths to gales.

Tucked under its feet and with a little more shelter is Aloe arborescens 'Variegata' - has it any hope of flowering outside at this time of year?

Image

We don't usually get a frost here till late December, but growth has slowed right down so they take ages to 'do' anything.

Chad.


Last edited by Chad on Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:20 pm
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:32 pm
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Location: devon uk
Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Hi Chad
Good to see your plant is in bud
My plants in open tunnel just survived last nights freeze but leaves were bronzed.
As for name. Put out as D aff pteropoda it keys out in later works as Dahlia tubulata
These larger Eastern forms from lower elevations are related but obviously very different from Sorensens original description.
The Mexican authorities have put a name of Dahlia tamaulipana on this material but I have not seen a description yet!
This Dahlia occurs both North and South of Los Troncones (the origin of your material) and was collected by Hinton to the NW.
To the South the workers at "El Cielo" refer to it as Dahlia rosea or Dahlia merckii.
For me the hope of November flowers outside is poor but they are such great foliage plants and very root-hardy it makes them well worthwhile.

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Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:51 pm
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Location: Loughborough, Leics, central UK
Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Fingers crossed for you Chad please post a picture should they make it.....we have between -1c and -4c forecast for tomorrow I hope you miss out on that.


Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
We haven't had a frost yet, but the autumn gales have blown through!

Image
Dahlia tamaulipana


Image
Dahlia tamaulipana

Nick from PanGlobal was talking in Cornwall and showed a wonderful picture of this in unbattered flower.

This rather bedraggled flower is the best I'll get until I have grown some more wind break.

Chad.


Last edited by Chad on Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Your Dahlia has some resemblance to D. tenuicaulis, except the flower isn't as dark. Growth habit seems quite similar. I know how nerve wracking late blooming Dahlias can be, between winter frost and winter storms. I eventually got rid of Dahlia tenuicaulis because the structure was just too fragile to normal weather. Has your Dahlia campanulata ever managed to bloom? One I thought I'd managed to get ahold of, but turned out to be just another D. imperialis once it bloomed.

All Aloe arborescens typically are in bloom by early December here in northern California, except the yellow flowered form may sometimes start blooming as early as late October.

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Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
david feix wrote:
Has your Dahlia campanulata ever managed to bloom? One I thought I'd managed to get ahold of, but turned out to be just another D. imperialis once it bloomed.


I've managed one set of flowers on a low branch last year. Sheltered from the wind by the wall it grows against. Not enough to be things of beauty but enough to confirm the identity. If I had space I would try it my poly tunnel.

For pictures of the disputed species, this thread has them in bloom. Incidentally it was also from that thread that David set me off looking for Polymnia maculata which now grows beside this Dahlia and has had its leaves blown off leaving its small sunflowers looking rather forlorn on top.

Chad.


Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Good effort Chad, but that Cornish wind is definitely your enemy! I have flowered this twice in the nursery garden and each time it has looked superb; once in November and once a full month later in December. Most years it gets frosted before flowers open of course, as would be expected in my location.

When I showed material about four years ago (as D. aff. pteropoda) to a Dahlia expert from the Continent with huge experience in the field in Mexico he pronounced it as very different from D. pteropoda and, he thought, very likely a new species. He informed contacts in Mexico of its existence and location at the time. The outcome of this is written up HERE in Spanish. Online translation gives us this:

Dahlia tamaulipana (Asteraceae, Coreopsideae), a new species
For the state of Tamaulipas, Mexico.
At the end of 2010, Ingo Kazmareck of the University of Hamburg Germany
Information and photographs about an interesting Dahlia from the state of Tamaulipas, Mexico,
Written by Nick Macer, a great horticulturist and explorer of England.
The data were sent to M. in C. Jerónimo Reyes Santiago, connoisseur of the genus Dahlia
In Mexico, who immediately realized that it was probably a new species
By its flowering season in the month of November.
An exploration trip was organized in the middle of November 2012 with the
Information and photos of Mr. Macer, who writes that in 2005 "he found a colony
Large of a species of Dalia not known right in the middle of a nature reserve, far
Of any civilization within a moist forest under the shadow of Quercus
Rysophylla ". The data that helped to locate the unknown Dahlia was to mention the
Municipality of Cd. Victoria and that grows to 1000 meters of altitude, which was enough to
Start the search.
After three hours on wet dirt road, we reached a glen that made
Stop the expedition, wild turkeys were eating dahlia leaves and flowers
Unknown. There were about 15 specimens with flowers, many already destroyed by
Turkeys Photographs were taken with details, measured in place and pressed for
Herbarium, collecting seeds and live specimens for study.
According to the corresponding analysis carried out by the M. in C. Reyes Santiaguillo
Reported a new species called Dahlia tamaulipana

I await news of a formal description.

I grow true D. pteropoda and it is a very different plant to D. 'tamaulipana' in almost every detail.

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Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Mark and Nick I thank you both for naming it.

I have cheekily edited the above posts with the name under the pictures.

Let's see how long before those pictures show up as the only ones of it when googling the name Dahlia tamaulipana.

Nick - your epithet sounds better in the original Spanish; 'Nick Macer, un gran horticultor y explorador de Inglaterra.'

Can we adopt the name without a formal written description?

Chad.


Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:07 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Cross it with something Chad..you have a name for posterity in the trade. Freeze the pollen!


Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:28 am
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
I have managed to flower this plant once Chad in 2014 and that was in mid November ... luckily no frost. Unfortunately growth of other plants has crowded this Dahlia out now. So I will have to move the massive tubers which is no mean task. I have found the molluscs consider it a delicacy also.

Image


Image

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Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:20 am
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Andy Martin wrote:
So I will have to move the massive tubers which is no mean task.


Only if you like hard work!

Root a cutting or two in the spring and plant them somewhere more auspicious.

Life is too short to do unnecessary hard work.

Chad.


Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:49 am
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Chad wrote:
Nick - your epithet sounds better in the original Spanish; 'Nick Macer, un gran horticultor y explorador de Inglaterra.'

Can we adopt the name without a formal written description?

Chad.


Agreed. Maybe I'll write my catalogue in Spanish from now on...

I think a bit dodgy to use the name without official description, so I'll stick to Dahlia sp. nova for my stock for now.

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Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Well, this thread is already the first 'hit' on google images ...

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Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Hi everyone. Sorry to veer off-topic here, but I wanted to bring your attention to the pinned thread on the main forum index:

http://www.growingontheedge.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10274

This site is at risk of closing down if we don't raise enough funds to keep it going. I won't repeat David's message on this thread but please click on the link above and PLEASE make a donation - however small - using the PayPal donate button at the top of the page. Many thanks to those who have already contributed. Here's a screenshot to show you where the donate button is located:

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Thank you :D


Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:14 am
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Post Re: Will it make it before the frost?
Latest news...

In the light of recently discovered related entities the Mexicans are holding off naming this officially until relationships are established, to avoid making the mistakes of Sörensen etc years ago.

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:11 pm
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